DALLAS INTERVIEWS

LINDA GRAY AND LARRY HAGMAN

KING: We're back with Larry Hagman and Linda Gray. Larry stars in, Linda directs "Murder in the First," a play now in Ventura. It could be coming to a theater near you, hopefully to New York. Got great reviews out here. And we're reliving "Dallas."

You should see them when we show these scenes, because you crack up. Some you forget, then you remember.

HAGMAN: Yes, yes.

KING: And it's got to be hysterical to watch this.

GRAY: It's so funny.

HAGMAN: It is. It really is.

KING: How did you get involved with the U.N.?

GRAY: I read a script, a wonderful woman wrote a script about the issue, women's issues, women and children issues around the world. And I read this script, and I really didn't know as a woman all of the things that were going on globally. So I said: "What can I do to help? I would love to get this message out. I'd love to help the women in these countries. What can I do to help?"

So she said, well, the U.N. is involved in this, I'll call them and see if there's anything you can do. So I thought maybe I could make coffee, I didn't know what I was going to be doing.

So they came out and had a lovely luncheon with me. And at the end of the luncheon, they said, we would like you to be our good will ambassador.

And I thought.

KING: Audrey had passed on.

GRAY: Yes. Audrey was with UNICEF. And I'm with a wonderful area called Face-to-Face. My first visit was to Nicaragua, and I went to visit the little villages, and you know, sat with the women and their children. And they...

KING: So now you leave for Geneva, right?

GRAY: I leave for Geneva Saturday, yes.

HAGMAN: There's a big difference.

GRAY: Yes, a big difference. Yes, where I'll meet other ambassadors.

KING: Are you enjoying this?

GRAY: I love it. It's -- you know, the heart expands when you do things like that.

KING: Do you feel funny having a different -- you feel exactly the same with a new liver?

HAGMAN: I feel a lot better. This is a healthy liver.

KING: I know. But you -- when you were feeling bad, how bad was it?

HAGMAN: Ah, you're debilitated. You just have no energy. You wake up exhausted.

KING: Yellow, jaundiced, too?

HAGMAN: Oh yes, all of that.

KING: Vancouver, British Columbia, as we go to calls for the Ewings. Hello.

CALLER: Hi...

KING: Hi.

CALLER: Larry, Larry and Linda, you guys look great, .

GRAY: Thank you.

KING: Thank you.

HAGMAN: Thank you.

CALLER: I'm just wondering if you keep up with the other cast members and what some of them are up to now. HAGMAN: Patrick is in London doing "Art."

KING: Oh, that's a great play.

GRAY: Play. He'll be wonderful.

HAGMAN: He and John Boyer are over there together in London, and he and I go hunting and fishing together quite often. And Steve Kanaly's a good friend of mine. We go hunting and fishing together.

KING: Who do you keep in touch with?

GRAY: I run into Charlene Tilton. Well, I really stay in touch with Larry and Maj, his wonderful wife. We call each other wife.

But I see Charlene and Ken Kercheval and Larry mostly.

KING: And who's passed on?

HAGMAN: Jim Davis, of course.

GRAY: Jim Davis.

And Howard Keel. I love Howard Keel.

HAGMAN: He's not passed on.

GRAY: No, I love -- no, I see Howard Keel. Howard Keel lives in the desert.

KING: He doesn't sing anymore, does he?

HAGMAN: Yes, he does.

GRAY: Yes, he does. He's amazing.

HAGMAN: Sells out in London and all over England.

GRAY: He's fabulous.

HAGMAN: He goes over there in the summer for a couple of months.

KING: What a voice? I never hear him sing in America.

HAGMAN: And still got it. And still got it. He was in "The Follies" down in...

GRAY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in Palm Desert.

HAGMAN: ... in Palm Desert.

KING: I saw him do a road company with "La Mancha." He was fantastic.

GRAY: Oh, he's incredible.

HAGMAN: Wonderful.

KING: Dallas, hello.

CALLER: Yes. I am the No. 1 tour guide at South Fork Ranch.

HAGMAN: Oh!

CALLER: And I had the opportunity to meet Larry and Linda when they filmed in '97 for "Dallas: War of the Ewings." And the No. 1 question that I'm asked every day of my life on my job is, when is the next reunion show and are they ever coming to South Fork?

KING: Hold on, ma'am. South Fork is a tourist attraction?

CALLER: Oh, yes, it is, Larry. Honey, you've got to come see us. It's great.

KING: And you take people on tours every day?

CALLER: Every day I get paid to talk about the Ewings. It's the best job.

GRAY: That's sweet. You sound adorable.

KING: What a great thing that you called in. OK. Is there going to be a four? Let her give the answer tomorrow.

GRAY: This is it. I think you're seeing it.

HAGMAN: Yes, I think this is the reunion. Yes, the bloom is off the rose for reunions I think.

KING: They're not going to do one, ma'am.

GRAY: We're doing it right now.

KING: This is it. You've just seen the reunion. You did three, right?

HAGMAN: Two.

KING: Two. In fact, we're going to, in a moment, see a clip from one.

Evansville, Tennessee, hello.

CALLER: Evansville, Indiana, Larry.

KING: Indiana. I'm sorry.

CALLER: Good evening, everybody. Hi, Larry and Linda. It's great to see you.

GRAY: Hello.

CALLER: You all have done so much for TV and you should feel proud about that. My question to you is this: Could there ever be another type of "Dallas" show again?

HAGMAN: Sure.

KING: Think so?

GRAY: Oh sure, I think it's all about relationships.

KING: It'd have to be shot differently.

HAGMAN: Oh yes, yes.

GRAY: You know, I think people just -- it's like the films in the '40s, you know, it was all about relationships, and that can continue forever.

KING: But now it's about quiz shows and real-life people on islands. Is it all cyclical?

GRAY: I think so.

HAGMAN: Yes, I think so. Everything that goes around comes around.

KING: If you were doing "Dallas" now, you'd have to do what, though? Quicker cuts?

HAGMAN: Quicker cuts.

GRAY: Quicker cuts.

KING: More MTV-ish?

HAGMAN: Yes, I think so. Faster.

GRAY: Absolutely.

HAGMAN: People are more hip now.

KING: But stories about relationships will always be around, right?

GRAY: Oh, of course.

HAGMAN: Sure.

KING: OK. As we go to break, speaking of reunions and the tour -- isn't that funny? The tour guide calls in. I didn't know South Fork...

HAGMAN: Oh yes, big. I think it's the second-largest...

KING: What do you show them, the ranch and the rooms you...

GRAY: Yes.

HAGMAN: Oh yes. KING: ... had the fights in.

HAGMAN: And then they have the rodeos there, baseball games, all kinds of stuff.

KING: Here's a scene from the reunion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "DALLAS: J.R. RETURNS")

HAGMAN: I'd really like it if we could forget all the bad things that happened between us, make this a really pleasant visit for you and John Ross.

GRAY: I'd like that, too. I hope it can happen.

HAGMAN: You think you might stay on for a while? Give me a chance to get to know my son again.

GRAY: Maybe you ought to take your bath. We're not leaving immediately.

HAGMAN: You look wonderful, Sue Ellen. I've never seen you look so good.

I guess this marriage is agreeing with you.

GRAY: Thank you. How nice you care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: By the way, we should point out, you're a big advocate of transplants, right, and people signing up, donor rolls?

HAGMAN: Hey, we...

KING: All you've got to do is do your license, right? Driver's license.

HAGMAN: Yes, but you've got to tell your loved-ones about this, because they won't -- they won't do your transfer -- transplant unless they have the permission of the loved-ones, the father, the mother, the...

KING: Even if you checked off?

HAGMAN: Even if you checked it off. So you've got to make it plain to your loved-ones what you want.

KING: Do you know if there's a lot of waiting lists?

HAGMAN: Yes, there's like 50,000, 60,000 people waiting. Like 10 people die every day.

KING: Do we know how many people could give and don't? In other words, do we know...

HAGMAN: About 280 million people could give if they wanted to.

KING: Could give.

HAGMAN: Yes.

KING: Do we know how many are on the list to give?

HAGMAN: No, I don't know offhand, but it's -- it's not as many as people are needed, that's for sure.

KING: Sebring, Florida, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Hi.

HAGMAN: Hi.

CALLER: Hi, Linda and Larry.

GRAY: Hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Hello, go ahead.

GRAY: Hello. Hello.

CALLER: My question is, how are you folks doing? You look so good, you must be doing something right, because you're a still handsome-looking couple.

HAGMAN: Hey!

GRAY: Thank you. That's very sweet.

KING: What's -- what's the secrets here? You've got a new liver, you don't drink.

HAGMAN: No. Gosh, I don't drink anymore, that's for sure

KING: Don't smoke, of course. You're the biggest anti...

HAGMAN: No, but I've got diabetes, too, because of the medications I take -- gives me diabetes. So to beat that, I watch my carbohydrates, very low carbohydrate diet. And also exercise an hour every day. And I've lost 50 pounds, and I feel really, really good.

GRAY: You look wonderful.

HAGMAN: Well, thank you.

GRAY: Yes, you do.

KING: Yes, you do...

GRAY: You really look great.

KING: And you, Linda, what do you do to keep so -- I mean, you don't want to give your age. But...

GRAY: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: I mean, you look 00 I know your age and you look unbelievable.

GRAY: Thank you very much.

KING: See, to me, if I were you, I would give my age just to impress people.

GRAY: You would?

KING: You're unbelievable.

GRAY: Ninety-seven.

HAGMAN: Say, you're 97 and looking great.

(LAUGHTER)

GRAY: Great moisturizer. Thank you.

KING: Do you take good care of yourself?

GRAY: I do, I do. I think -- I think it comes from within as well. I think when you're really happy and love yourself, love the way...

KING: Are you married now?

GRAY: No, no. But I have a great -- I have my grandson, my...

KING: You're a grandparent?

GRAY: I have wonderful man in my life. I'm grandparent, yes. My grandson, Ryder (ph), is 8 years old. I took him to the White House, and he and I hung out, had a great time. So I want to be that kind of a grandmother.

KING: And you've been married for how many years?

HAGMAN: About 46.

KING: What's the secret?

HAGMAN: Two bathrooms. I'm not kidding you.

(LAUGHTER) KING: No, you're not kidding.

HAGMAN: Oh, that's what my wife says. Two bathrooms, that makes a good marriage. Less tension.

KING: Yes, bathrooms cause tension. That's a very good point.

HAGMAN: Yes. Well, there's always tension when you're -- when you're vying for the seat for the throne. Yes, of course, there is.

KING: Did your wife enjoy the character you played?

HAGMAN: Oh sure.

KING: She enjoyed the money that...

HAGMAN: Well, yes, of course. That's secondary. But I mean, you can't be happy in a part that's no good. No, she loved the part.

KING: Before "Dallas" you were just an actress knocking on doors, auditioning, taking what you could?

GRAY: Yes. Well, I started out as a model and went into commercials, got married.

KING: Were you a successful model?

GRAY: Yes, yes, I was. Then I did about 400 commercials.

KING: Oh, you did?

GRAY: And got married and had children.

KING: Did you do any we know about? Did you do any famous commercials?

GRAY: I think so. I think there were lots, a lot of them. I did Salem. That's when we -- we talked earlier about smoking.

KING: You were the Salem girl?

GRAY: I did Salem. Yes. Yes, when cigarette commercials were on the air.

KING: And how did you get "I Dream of Jeannie"?

HAGMAN: I came out, auditioned for it, and did a screen test. And they said, OK. I was ready for it, though.

KING: Did you think that could work? A genie?

HAGMAN: I always thought that show would go. I always...

KING: Really?

HAGMAN: But I was very naive about it. You know, I came out from New York. I had been on a stage, and I had been doing daytime soap opera for three years, too, so I kind of...

KING: What show?

HAGMAN: "The Edge of Night."

KING: "The Edge of Night."

HAGMAN: Yes, yes, you probably saw it.

KING: My mother's favorite...

HAGMAN: Really?

KING: My mother's favorite soap.

HAGMAN: Well, I played...

KING: "The Edge of Night."

HAGMAN: ... a lieutenant in the police force studying to be a lawyer for some reason at night, and it was -- it was wonderful.

So I came out here when everything was leaving New York. All the live shows, "The Alcoa Hour" and "The Aluminum Hour," and you know, all that. So I came out here to try it and got "Jeannie."

KING: You did the movie "Fail-Safe." You were great, the scene with Henry Fonda.

HAGMAN: Oh, thanks.

KING: They did it live on television recently.

HAGMAN: Yes, so I understand.

KING: Wanted you to come back. You didn't want to come back.

HAGMAN: Well, I'd already done it, you know. I mean, I don't like to go home.

KING: Was it fun to do scenes with Fonda?

HAGMAN: Oh, he was wonderful. He taught me a lot. Not to smoke for one thing. I started out smoking, and after the first day, I had to smoke like two packs of cigarettes, because they cut the scene and you'd have to go back and smoke it again. And it was terrible, so I never did that.

And he would sit like I'm doing now and put his hands like that so he didn't have to match, you know, for cutting purposes. So I always sit like this now, even when I'm here.

KING: Henry taught you that?

HAGMAN: Yes.

KING: How did you stop smoking?

HAGMAN: Well, I tried everything, you know, but I just finally one day stopped. And it was -- it was hell. It was the hardest thing I ever -- drinking wasn't any problem, but smoking was really tough. It's probably the worst drug there is, and it kills more people than any other drug, too.

KING: Did you smoke, too, Linda?

GRAY: Yes, I did.

KING: And you stopped one day, too.

GRAY: I stopped when I was 20, I think. I smoked for two years, because I was doing cigarette commercials and I felt like I had instant lung cancer. So I said that's it, finished.

KING: As we go to break, a scene from "I Dream of Jeannie." Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "I DREAM OF JEANNIE")

HAGMAN: Girls, why don't you negotiate? I mean, after all, you're sisters.

BARBARA EDEN, ACTRESS: What you need is to improve your mind with a few good books.

HAGMAN: Wait a minute.

(LAUGHTER)

All right, ladies. Now, stop it, I mean it.

(LAUGHTER)

Jeannie, doesn't she have a master of her own?

EDEN: Oh, Master, you are brilliant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: To Fountain Valley, California for the Ewings, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Hello. Hello, Linda and Larry.

GRAY: Hello.

HAGMAN: Hi.

CALLER: I just want to tell you I was your biggest fan for 13 years, their No. 1 fan. I think I saw every episode. I just was reviewing a clip from the '89 season, which I know was Linda's last season. I recently watched the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reruns. I was so disappointed, when you actually left the show in 1989. Why did you leave in '89?

KING: You left...

GRAY: Very simply.

KING: You had two more years to go or...

GRAY: It continued for two years. My contract was up.

KING: And?

GRAY: And we felt that Sue Ellen had realty come into her own. She was a survivor. She had stopped drinking. She was happily married. She went off to London with Ian McShane, not a bad way to leave. And all was well. So...

KING: So they wrote her out by having her just dump J.R. and...

GRAY: Just dump him, as she should have years ago.

HAGMAN: I hated it. I got down on my hands and knees, and begged her not to go.

GRAY: Oh, he did not.

KING: Off...

HAGMAN: I did.

GRAY: He did.

KING: You could have stayed, right?

GRAY: No, I...

HAGMAN: Sure, she could have stayed.

GRAY: Oh, I couldn't.

HAGMAN: If I had said she could have stayed she could have stayed.

KING: He was the boss.

HAGMAN: Of course.

GRAY: He thought.

HAGMAN: I was. What are you, kidding?

KING: How did they...

GRAY: He was.

KING: What -- did they have you -- did you remarry? Did J.R. remarry?

HAGMAN: Yes, yes. Pretty little girl, too.

GRAY: See...

HAGMAN: Yes, right.

GRAY: You were going to say.

HAGMAN: Yes, I was going to say but I'm not going say. Ah, no, gorgeous girl.

KING: Do you think it was a mistake leaving or not?

HAGMAN: And she was about 12 years old.

GRAY: No, I left at the right time. It was a perfect time, because they would have just rehashed it.

HAGMAN: Yes, because the ratings were going down, but it didn't seem right, though.

KING: What happens to a show when it starts to go down? Does it affect morale?

HAGMAN: Not ours. I mean, we -- we knew it was going to end sometime. We were just dragging it out as long as we could, you know. And people were losing ideas, but I think the energy was always there.

GRAY: But I think when the family starts dissipating -- Victoria left, Patrick disappeared for a year and then he came back in the shower.

HAGMAN: Steve left.

GRAY: And then I left, and so I think when the family, the core family starts dissolving...

HAGMAN: And momma left.

GRAY: ... then it...

KING: The hokiest was what? Patrick killed and he didn't -- a dream.

HAGMAN: Well, yes. Yes. Well, that...

KING: That was hokey.

HAGMAN: What was happening to "Dallas" in that year, as one of our producers, the one guy who was responsible for the success of the show, Leonard Katzman -- he had left, and Patrick had left, and it was becoming kind of a "Dynasty." Glitzy -- too glitzy. Getting away from Texas, you know. And I just couldn't stand it. And I said, Larry, you got to make it -- you've got to get our producer back, and they did finally. KING: Did you ever do feature films?

GRAY: Yes. I have done a few.

KING: Yes?

GRAY: Yes.

KING: But television was your game.

GRAY: It was. It just seemed to be that that's where I...

KING: Would you come back?

GRAY: Sure I'd come back. Of course I would. You know in a different -- I don't know. It'd have to be different, and something more, you know, very exciting.

KING: Speaking of feature films, here's Larry Hagman with John Travolta in "Primary Colors."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "PRIMARY COLORS")

HAGMAN: I should never have said yes to Mrs. Harris, but I liked what Harris was doing. And I thought I'd give it a week, and then it -- it just took off. Once I did that blood thing, God.

JOHN TRAVOLTA, ACTOR: Yes. That was great politics.

HAGMAN: Yes. Amazing. But, Jack, I'd like to thank you for coming here, the honorable way you have. I was wrong to stay in. I just hope that when I quit maybe they won't hit it as hard. My boys -- I really don't want them to know about Rancho. But probably the bottom line is I'm going to be a national joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: You directed an episode of "Dallas" -- a few episodes of "Dallas."

GRAY: Yes. I did.

KING: What's it like to direct a play -- different?

GRAY: Much different.

KING: No camera angles.

GRAY: No camera angles. No take two's. You make a mistake, you keep going. And it was the most challenging thing -- one of -- that I've ever done. And I absolutely adored it. I had this wonderful, wonderful cast.

And the first line of the script, it says that the curtains open and there are five sets on stage. So I thought, well now, do I either close the script right now hand it back to Dan Gordon and say thank you? So I thought well, OK, this is huge challenge. The stage is about this big. And there's no curtain. So I thought, well right away in the first two sentences I'm in trouble.

So we started with this great cast, started moving everybody except him. He just sits and stays. And we -- I rather treated it like a film. Move -- Joseph Fuqua is amazing in the Christian Slater role. And we just sort of moved Joseph around from set to set, brought up the lights, moved him to the cell where Ted Neeley is. And sort of moved him all around. And it was kind of like he was the pied piper and we followed him with lights. It was amazing.

KING: What is she like as director?

HAGMAN: She directs everybody else. She just leaves me alone. I sit up there and just say a few words.

KING: I don't understand that. You obviously have a lot of lines.

HAGMAN: No. I don't. No. No. Things like "sustained" and "overruled" and things like...

GRAY: And he would get them wrong. You know, he'd say "overruled" when he was supposed to say "sustained."

HAGMAN: Well, only twice in five performances.

GRAY: Well, that's not bad.

HAGMAN: No. I don't really do that much in the show. I'm just there for kind of decoration. And it's fun. I do have laughs.

GRAY: No. He does a beautiful job.

HAGMAN: I have some laughs and it's kind of a fun part. But I don't really do that much.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: When you're acting as a judge, and you're sitting and let's say there's dialogue between two other people and you've got five minutes without anything to say, all right. Are you concentrating on the play or are you thinking about...

HAGMAN: Well, you know, I haven't been in it that long. I've only done like six performances. So, yes, I listen each night because everybody is still discovering things. So, you know, you don't drift off. I'm sure if I did a year or so I would be -- you'd have to wake me up.

KING: Do you like acting better than modeling?

GRAY: Yes, absolutely.

KING: Better than commercials? That was the best?

GRAY: Yes. Acting is, for me, the best. And now I'm loving directing. I mean, I'm just -- I love it all right now. I'm having the most -- this is the most incredible time of my life. And...

KING: Really?

GRAY: Really. It's just fabulous. I've never felt better. My life is just in this divine phase that I love.

KING: And why do you like acting?

HAGMAN: I don't know anything else. I'm not -- I can't do anything else, I don't think. I'm not trained for anything except acting.

KING: When you were a kid in Texas it's what you wanted to do?

HAGMAN: Well, no. I wanted to be a cowboy when I started, but then I found out a cowboy was digging ditches, and, you know -- and bailing hay and stuff like that. So I called my mother and I said I think I've had enough of this. I think I want to become an actor because I knew they didn't work for a living. They had fun, and I have.

KING: It has been a good ride?

HAGMAN: Oh, boy, the best. I mean, really, it's been so much fun.

KING: And both of you always are looking to keep it up, right?

GRAY: Sure.

HAGMAN: Yes.

KING: I mean, take the right roles. The roles come, you want to act.

HAGMAN: Yes.

GRAY: See, I drag him into things. I dragged him into "Love Letters." He didn't want to do that.

KING: You two did "Love Letters" together.

GRAY: Sure.

HAGMAN: Yes.

GRAY: And We took to it Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

HAGMAN: Beverly Hills.

GRAY: We had the best time.

HAGMAN: Yes.

KING: It was fun?

HAGMAN: Yes.

GRAY: So much fun.

KING: That's a good play.

GRAY: Isn't that great. Have you ever done it?

KING: Well, no.

GRAY: You should do it.

KING: Should have done it.

HAGMAN: Why don't you go with her (ph).

HAGMAN: That'd be great.

GRAY: Yes. Come on. We can do it.

KING: The wife wouldn't mind.

GRAY: No, she has no -- no.

HAGMAN: No.

KING: Shawnie wouldn't mind.

HAGMAN: She is the best part of the show.

GRAY: She wouldn't -- no.

HAGMAN: I mean, she's a real slut, you know.

GRAY: Excuse me?

HAGMAN: I mean, an old drunk slut.

KING: Here we go. Fighting again.

GRAY: Here we go. It's his fault. He started it.

KING: You started it.

HAGMAN: No. What?

GARY: See, he said so.

KING: Thanks.

GARY: It's a pleasure. HAGMAN: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Larry Hagman and Linda Gray. We hope you enjoyed this hour as much as we did.

Stay tuned for "CNN NEWSSTAND" and that incredible story of the murder in Greenwich. Should he be tried as a youth or an adult? It happened many years ago. The murder in Greenwich is the topic and Greta Van Susteren will be there live on "CNN NEWSSTAND" taking your calls tonight.

We'll be back in tomorrow night. For Larry Hagman and Linda Gray, for the J.R. Ewings, thanks for joining us and good night.

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