DALLAS INTERVIEWS

LINDA GRAY AND LARRY HAGMAN

KING: When the show started and you were kind of background characters, did it start to do well immediately? Was "Dallas" an immediate hit?

HAGMAN: No, no. It went from, like, 69 to, you know, 37 and then up into the 20s.

KING: Was there a chance you'd be canceled early?

HAGMAN: Sure.

GRAY: Sure.

HAGMAN: We didn't know -- after first six shows, we didn't know what was going to happen, and then they picked it up for another six, didn't they? GRAY: Six.

HAGMAN: And then finally another 13. You know, it was like, you know...

GRAY: We were on Saturday nights, Sunday night, and then when we found the Friday night slot, that was our home.

KING: You became the Friday night niche, right?

HAGMAN: Yes. Well, you know, you've got to realize that there was kind of a recession going on during that period of time and people couldn't afford to go out, and so I figure that's what sold a lot of tickets for that show. You know, they couldn't go out to movie and get a babysitter and stuff like that. They had to stay in and watch something. So we were on.

KING: And what led to your parts growing? What do you think?

GRAY: I think the chemistry, I do.

KING: The bad chemistry or the good chemistry.

GRAY: It was pure -- that great chemistry.

KING: That scene we just saw did not look like two people in love. That was two people in hate.

HAGMAN: Well, they didn't show us in bed in that scene.

GRAY: But I think that's what sort of cemented the public. The public loved to see that. Because usually it was on daytime soap opera, but this was evening, and this was -- we were kind of the Bickersons.

KING: Yes. Why did the public like -- I guess, "like" is the right word -- J.R.?

HAGMAN: I have no idea.

KING: They liked him. They kind of perversely liked him.

HAGMAN: Yes. the ladies would like to get him to change him, I think. You know how they always like to do that.

GRAY: Oh stop.

HAGMAN: Yes, they do. And then when they get him, they don't want him changed, you know. And then the men wanted all the stuff that he got -- you know, the ladies, and the money and the accouterment.

KING: What was he like to play?

HAGMAN: What?

KING: What was he like to play?

HAGMAN: Oh, he was wonderful.

KING: Why?

HAGMAN: Because he just -- he got everything. You know, he got all stuff that men -- all the toys, you know, the good-looking women, and the cars and town houses, all that stuff, and then he got the wheel and deal. I call it "mogling." He was "mogling" all the time.

KING: Did you know guys like him?

HAGMAN: Yes, I did, very well. I patented this on a couple of guys I knew in Weatherford, Texas that I used to work for, my father used to work for. They were oil men, and they had four sons. And the old man was the patriarch. And when he died, they all clashed and tried to get -- I don't want to step on anybody's toes at home, but I really bottled it after some friends of mine.

KING: And, Sue Ellen, why did we like her?

GRAY: I think a lot of women could relate to Sue Ellen.

KING: You took a lot of crap.

GRAY: Took a lot of crap, yes I did.

HAGMAN: But she gave it to, you know.

GRAY: I'm talking. She was the most -- see, that's what happens. I think she was still the most interesting female on television in the '80s. She just...

KING: Because?

GRAY: She was -- a lot of women...

HAGMAN: I didn't say a word.

GRAY: Think this is how -- this is the magic that happened.

KING: I get it.

GRAY: You know, you see what happens. I don't know if that's magical. Anyway, she was a survivor, and I think a lot of people in the '80s were going through their own problems, whatever they were, addictions of one kind or another, and they really wanted to find a way to solve the problems and get out to the other side. So I got these great cheerleader letters, proposals of marriage certainly, definite proposals to leave this guy. Therapists would call, they would write letters, saying if you did this, if you did that.

KING: Why did they stay together?

GRAY: I think they loved each other.

(CROSSTALK)

HAGMAN: They had to. They each had an essence they needed from each other, you know.

GRAY: Dysfunctional, yes.

HAGMAN: I needed to bully her, and she needed to be bullied.

KING: We'll talk about the incredible drama, that insanity summer of who have shot J.R.? Bobby is dying and living and how we all lived with this show. The show was "Dallas." The stars are Larry Hagman and Linda Gray. And Larry now stars in a play directed by Linda, "Murder in the First," based on the film. It's now here in Ventura. Hopefully, we're going to be seeing it elsewhere around the country, hopefully in New York. We'll also talk about their other work and Larry's liver transplant as well.

And we will be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "DALLAS")

GRAY: You drove Carey away, and now Bobby. You tried to bribe Charlene. You cheated your friends. You've done everything in your power to get what you wanted. Well, you did it. Congratulations, J.R., you are now the Ewings only son.

HAGMAN: Mama, I didn't want Bobby to leave, you know that.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: All I know is, J.R., he's gone.

HAGMAN: You had your last stay in this house, Sue Ellen. You think you can get away talking about me in front of my momma and daddy like that? You've caused me enough humiliation. You're a drunk and unfit mother, and I honestly think you've lost your reason. I'm going to call Dr. Rogers. The sooner we have you put away in that sanitarium, the better off your going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "DALLAS")

HAGMAN: Who's there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The concluding episode, the "who shot J.R.?" episode, was watched by every person on the planet. What -- help those who may have missed. What was the buildup to this?

HAGMAN: I don't know. What was it? I slept with her sister.

GRAY: Yes.

HAGMAN: Yes, and she was knocked up, but not by me. It was by somebody else. But we didn't know that until about 18 shows later.

KING: Who did shoot J.R., you know? I forgot?

GRAY: Mary Crosby, my sister Crystal.

HAGMAN: Mary Crosby, Bing Crosby's little girl, and she shot me. Well, we had one scene, where we shot -- kind of a take-up. We had everybody shoot me, because we didn't really want press to know. So we had about every character, including the cameraman, come in and shoot me, right? And so I put all those scenes together, they're coming in and shooting me, and then I had the propman make a vest, and he pumped water through it, and I said -- and I took a slug of gin and I went like this, and said "missed." And water came out all over the place. It was...

GRAY: It was a sitcom.

KING: That was at the height of "Dallas'" fame, was it not?

HAGMAN: No, no, that was the second year.

GRAY: It did. That took us over way over the top. That was the...

HAGMAN: It took us -- yes. That was the second or third year?

GRAY: The second. Eighty-one?

KING: Was "Dallas" hard work?

HAGMAN: No. It was so much fun.

KING: It really was?

GRAY: We loved to go to work every day.

KING: You shot here, right?

GRAY: Yes.

KING: You'd go to Dallas -- you'd go to Texas for exteriors.

GRAY: Two months in a year.

HAGMAN: We shoot half of six here, and finish them down there, and then shoot another half of six.

KING: Did you have a favorite show?

HAGMAN: A favorite show?

GRAY: A favorite show.

KING: Yes. Did you have any?

HAGMAN: I liked the one where I put her in an insane asylum. I kind of liked that.

GRAY: He always likes that stupid show. I hated that one.

KING: How about when you filmed at South Fork? Wasn't it hot and windy and...

GRAY: Well, I've got, like, funny stories. Barbara Bel Geddes and I were doing a film in the driveway. It was blacktop, and it was 120-something degrees, and the director said action, we just stood there, and he thought we didn't hear him. He said action again. Nothing happened. Our high heels had gone into the blacktop. It was so hot. It melted the blacktop. We were just sitting there -- standing there, going we can't move, we can't move. It was hysterical. The things -- you know, the wind, and the hair and the lip gloss. I thought why are they sitting outside in this tornado weather?

KING: Did people take it realistically? Did people call you J.R. in the street?

HAGMAN: Oh yes. And Sue Ellen for her, oh absolutely.

GRAY: Sure.

KING: Now when we were watching you, you mentioned that if this were done today, it were done with faster clips. You think the action would be much faster.

HAGMAN: Yes, none of those long pregnant pauses and looks and so forth, they'd just -- let's go. They'd right three scripts and put it into one.

KING: Was it tough for both of you to get another career because of this? In other words, do you think there would have been movie roles you might have gotten or didn't get because you were so Sue Ellen?

GRAY: Probably.

HAGMAN: I think so.

GRAY: Yes, because you're very recognizable as that particular character, and that's the good news, bad news, because Sue Ellen and J.R. will stay with us forever, and that's the good news. That's lovely, that you know you've entertained people around world for all those years. That's a nice thing to have.

KING: On this show, Mary Tyler Moore admitted that she had a real thing for Dick Van Dyke. And had there not been a marriage involved, something might have happened. The same question is now asked of the two of you.

GRAY: Oh.

HAGMAN: I know she had a thing for me, but -- I guess so.

KING: I mean then, did you have a...

HAGMAN: Well, we had a chemistry.

GRAY: There was a chemistry different. It was different than, you know, a lust thing. There was always...

KING: I mean, nothing happened offstage with Mary and Dick.

HAGMAN: Nor with us.

GRAY: Nor with us, no.

HAGMAN: But we did have -- I mean, look, we rehearsed with each other. I mean, we were together. I mean, that was a real family, Patrick, and Victoria, and Linda and I and Charlene, and well, it was just we were together all the time, and we enjoyed each others' company. That was the...

GRAY: And there was great respect. There was this -- there was the chemistry, and we really worked very well off camera and on.

KING: Did a lot of guest actors go on to do pretty well after a period of one or two "Dallas?"

HAGMAN: Oh, sure. Brian Dennehy's doing very well.

KING: Not bad.

GRAY: He was in "The Grave."

HAGMAN: He was one of the first ones.

GRAY: Yes, he was had a gun to my head in 1978, and I sang "People," so that was my least...

HAGMAN: You want to sing that again?

GRAY: No, no, no, I don't.

KING: Maybe they will.

Let's take a break and come back. We'll be including a lot of your phone calls. They're with us for full hour, Larry Hagman and Linda Gray. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Do we sing "Happy Birthday."

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES (singing): Happy birthday to us. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to dear "Dallas," happy birthday to you.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Three-hundred episodes. They did 356 in all, did 154 Genies. You got all the tapes, too, right?

GRAY: Yes, sir.

KING: When did you know you had liver trouble?

HAGMAN: About eight years ago, yes, eight years.

KING: What was first sign?

HAGMAN: Well, I was working out in a gym, and my trainer said, you know, you don't have the energy you used to have, and you better go see a doctor. So I went see a doctor, and he called up a couple days later, and said, you have a life-threatening situation here, your liver...

KING: Just like that?

HAGMAN: Just like that. He said, Larry, if you have another drink, it could kill you. I had a drink in my hand at the time.

KING: Were you a drinker?

HAGMAN: Oh yes, yes.

KING: Alcoholic?

HAGMAN: What else? I mean, is there another kind of drinker?

KING: Betty Ford kind of...

HAGMAN: Oh yes -- well no, I just drank all the time. I'd wake up -- I'd go through about five bottles of champagne a day and just kind of drift. I never got loaded. I just kind of softly loaded all day long, and...

KING: So you're drinking during "Dallas?"

HAGMAN: Oh yes, sure.

KING: Did you know that?

GRAY: Yes.

HAGMAN: Sure. She kept saying, what are you doing to yourself? I said, listen, I work all right. It's working, isn't it? Well, it was working, but it wasn't doing liver any good. So I threw that drink away, and I never picked up another one. That was eight years ago. And three years after that, I had my liver transplant.

KING: I remember that. You got it around same time Mantle's, right?

HAGMAN: Yes. I had it about three or four months after that, after his. KING: What's it like to have to get a transplant?

HAGMAN: Oh, well, I don't know. They give you a huge enema, and then you don't realize it. You know, you're out of it. You're just gone.

KING: It's got to feel funny, someone else's liver is in you, right? Does it feel funny?

HAGMAN: Oh no, course not. You don't know any difference. I don't feel any difference, except I've got to speak a little Spanish -- it's Puerto Rican.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: And now you're like for spokesman for the National Kidney Foundation?

HAGMAN: Yes, and we're having our transplant game starting tomorrow.

KING: What is that? Everybody in it had transplants?

HAGMAN: Yes, all the competing people, and then the donor families come, the people -- the families of the people who have given the...

KING: So you know family of the person who gave you your liver?

HAGMAN: I do know of them, yes, because the "National Inquirer" was following the frequency of my helicopter that brought me in, and went out and discovered who it was, interviewed them, you know, did a big thing, which they are not supposed to do.

KING: Really? And they did something they weren't supposed to do?

HAGMAN: Really.

KING: What a shock.

HAGMAN: I know.

KING: We'll take a break, come back, ask Linda about her work with the U.N. and take your phone calls.

This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

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